English Cave...once again

[crazydrummerdude]

I've really been wanting to explore Cliff Cave in South County. It's gated but I discovered a way in last time I was there. I think they have cameras set up in the cave as well. Most likely as a deterrent so people don't discover that the cave is actually fake.

Cliff Cave is totally fake, like all St Louis caves.

Yeah, I don't know what to call it. Someone from here in Springfield that moved out to Highland, IL had a wine cellar that stretched out into a catacomb on their street. They used to have openings to where you could go under other people's houses. I've never visited them out there though. Is that even close enough to be a St. Louis suburb. I'm in the wrong part of the forum.

Highland is not a St Louis suburb, but that story sounds completely fake, too. You better give me the address so I can go prove that it's fake.

[RedRook]

I've really been wanting to explore Cliff Cave in South County. It's gated but I discovered a way in last time I was there. I think they have cameras set up in the cave as well. Most likely as a deterrent so people don't discover that the cave is actually fake.

Cliff Cave is totally fake, like all St Louis caves.

Yeah, I don't know what to call it. Someone from here in Springfield that moved out to Highland, IL had a wine cellar that stretched out into a catacomb on their street. They used to have openings to where you could go under other people's houses. I've never visited them out there though. Is that even close enough to be a St. Louis suburb. I'm in the wrong part of the forum.

Highland is not a St Louis suburb, but that story sounds completely fake, too. You better give me the address so I can go prove that it's fake.

Why did some random guy from the internet show up at our door with a sledge hammer and a cooler full of beer.

You told me there were catacombs ten years ago.

Yeah, but who is the guy in our cellar.

Someone who's going to fix your lack of tunnel problems.

Their address is:
1060 West Addison Street, Chicago, IL

Yeah, it's probably fake, but you can go ask them for yourself.

[Nicotti]

Somebody like's the Blues Brothers movie...

[critter]

My sincerest apologies for digging up a near four year-dead topic, but I came across an interesting description for this former listing.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1976-Ar ... /13518548/

[Nicotti]

My sincerest apologies for digging up a near four year-dead topic, but I came across an interesting description for this former listing.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1976-Ar ... /13518548/

Just to quote the webpage for 4 years from now when the page won't exist:

Multifamily Property For Sale - 1976 Arsenal St
Price: Price Not Disclosed
No. Stories: 3
No. Units: 5
Year Built: 1889
Property Type: Multifamily
Building Size: 6,783 SF
Listing ID: 13518548
Date Created: 8/16/2018
Last Updated: 11/14/2018

Description
Beautiful c)1889 three story mixed use building in Benton Park Historic District listed on the National Historic Register. First floor leased until Dec 2019. Two 2-bedroom and two 1-bedroom apartments on the second and third floors. Building rehabbed in the 1990’s with new electrical and plumbing. All units have in unit HVAC, hot water heaters, hookups for washer/dryers and gas fireplaces. Flat roofs to be replaced. 4 parking spaces, fenced yard and patio area. The building is situated over the English Cave Systems which brought major brewers to the area during the latter part of the 19th century. The building has a sealed entrance to the cave system and is located just a few blocks west of Anheuser Busch, borders historic Soulard and is directly adjacent to Benton Park. Step out the door and step into beautiful Benton Park.

[Whitepanther]

My sincerest apologies for digging up a near four year-dead topic, but I came across an interesting description for this former listing.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1976-Ar ... /13518548/

Just to quote the webpage for 4 years from now when the page won't exist:

Multifamily Property For Sale - 1976 Arsenal St
Price: Price Not Disclosed
No. Stories: 3
No. Units: 5
Year Built: 1889
Property Type: Multifamily
Building Size: 6,783 SF
Listing ID: 13518548
Date Created: 8/16/2018
Last Updated: 11/14/2018

Description
Beautiful c)1889 three story mixed use building in Benton Park Historic District listed on the National Historic Register. First floor leased until Dec 2019. Two 2-bedroom and two 1-bedroom apartments on the second and third floors. Building rehabbed in the 1990’s with new electrical and plumbing. All units have in unit HVAC, hot water heaters, hookups for washer/dryers and gas fireplaces. Flat roofs to be replaced. 4 parking spaces, fenced yard and patio area. The building is situated over the English Cave Systems which brought major brewers to the area during the latter part of the 19th century. The building has a sealed entrance to the cave system and is located just a few blocks west of Anheuser Busch, borders historic Soulard and is directly adjacent to Benton Park. Step out the door and step into beautiful Benton Park.

Interesting that they are selling this building under the guise of being a former entrance to the cave. I'd ask for proof before buying on that alone if it were me, just a tip. My best guess places the naturally occurring entrance not far from here. Not sure what happened with that entrance, but St. Louis Cultivated Mushroom Co subdivided Block 2054. They were whom sold this land to Christian Schollmeyer who built the current building. Doubtful that the natural entrance still existed at that point. But if it sells a building, some realtors will say anything.

Still a good find Critter.

Nicotti's that comment was funny lol.

[Whitepanther]

My sincerest apologies for digging up a near four year-dead topic, but I came across an interesting description for this former listing.

on Park

Don't apologize for bumping an old English thread. There used to be recent ones, but due to some minor success in the area with the residents of Benton Park in pursuit of this cave, I asked a moderator to delete the thread that revealed too much info in a public manner. I take responsibility for that. I'm glad to see someone cares about English and will help however I can. Not in the business of hiding info but hope you understand the residents deserve some degree of privacy too. If a nearly all male forum was talking about sneaking in my house just to see what's doin, I'd probably not appreciate it too much. I've vowed to be more delicate this time around.

[Nicotti]

What if it were a forum of nearly all twenty-something promiscuous females?

[Whitepanther]

What if it were a forum of nearly all twenty-something promiscuous females?

The one who doesn’t take no for an answer would certainly get through the door. I’d try my best to disappoint her as soon as possible, which I think should be easy enough. This of course would be so the rest of the group doesn’t get surly. It’s hard enough to juggle the many personalities of one chick. But strangely that’s also why I love em.

[the_p0ssum]

Looks like the property is no longer on the market, however, I did find a cached listing at Google with 4 pics of the basement. Click Here

Pretty mundane but one looks like it might have a section where the stone is different.

[Whitepanther]

Looks like the property is no longer on the market, however, I did find a cached listing at Google with 4 pics of the basement. Click Here

Pretty mundane but one looks like it might have a section where the stone is different.

Good find!

[Chubz]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. http://www.mospeleo.org/lemp-brewery-ca ... rokee-cave

[Nicotti]

Saw this article mentioned on the MSS site.

[Whitepanther]

Not sure if this has been posted yet. http://www.mospeleo.org/lemp-brewery-ca ... rokee-cave

Chubz this looks really cool. I’d ask how you found it but the link is pretty self explanatory. I’m going to purchase this just to have the latest re-survey of Cherokee but the rest sounds cool too. I first saw it last year in a jumbo version about 10’x15’ but it was too hard to get a good pic. Sometimes people get the wrong impression when they hear a Cave is re-surveyed as if the map is not accurate. I used to be one of those foolish people btw because I took it too literal. This isn’t the intended purpose as much as it is to display an improved set of kartography skills. It’s a lot like how newspapers used to employ sketch artists long ago to capture isometric sketches to give a better idea of range and depth or even cutaway views in a way photos can’t always give a clear indication of in low res.


I’ll look for my giant sample pics of part of the survey from last year to post. I’ve never been in Cherokee but it’s always fascinating topic to me. Thanks again for sharing.

[PUNKAHONTAS]

I find it interesting in itself that the agent would throw that out as a selling point, but that address has been on my radar for a number of years. Not only for its interesting history (James Earl Ray's brother owned it in the late 60's into the 70's and its connection to an infamous art heist that happened here in the 70's) but also as a possible connection to the cave system under the park.

Several years ago I was researching an unrelated topic and came across a newspaper clipping about a police raid at that address. It mentioned a chamber off of the basement that contained a still and evidence of an illegal gambling ring being done in it by some local crime family.

A couple of years ago, I ran across a PBS video where they were doing a piece on the revitalization of that section of Arsenal and the interviewer was talking to new tenants of that corner storefront and they mentioned a bricked up doorway in the basement. One of them mentioned a definite hollow sound when the brick was knocked on and went on to tell how one time mortar between a couple of bricks was crumbling enough to create a crack that they could look through. They tried it and said it seemed to be pretty big space of darkness behind the wall but did not want to investigate further because they didn't want to get in trouble with their landlord.

I lost copies and links I had about this and have recently tried to find these claims again a few times but have not been successful, unfortunately. I can tell you that the clipping about the raid was definitely pre 60's and the PBS special was hosted by Don Kirscher, but I can't remember if it was a Living St. Louis, one of its specials, or something else intirely.