Too Far North

Baileybrucem · Post by **Baileybrucem** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:03 am

So, I've come across some rather intriguing information. I've heard from a friend of mine that there is -or was- a rather large cave system somewhere off of Cleveland St, which is about 30 or 40 miles south of Kansas City (just to the west of Y highway). Now, I was told that the cave is very very unheard of, and the only reason he knows anything about it is because he used to go dirt biking all over the area when he was younger. He told me that he was biking with some friends, and ended up almost driving into one of the entrances in the ground. He also told me there were multiple entrances, and that one of them was closed up due to some sort of potentially toxic gas.

Now, I've done some digging on the internet, and haven't come up with much of anything, but I have a couple of thoughts. For starters, the area described above is strikingly close to an active quarry. The quarry isn't more than 40 years old at the most, so I wonder if my friend stumbled upon this cave very shortly after the quarry accidentally blew a hole in it. I also find it odd that there aren't any large, moving water sources nearby. Caves don't really come out of nowhere, so I really question the entire idea about a cave so far north of the Ozarks. However, I've spoken to my friend on a number of occasions about this cave he remembers, and I can't help but wonder if there is some truth to what he's told me. I've looked around google maps, and I am very curious about 38.701561, -94.553604 .

I really have no solid evidence to support the validity of any cave in this area, but I've driven to the coordinates above and from the road there did appear to be a significant dip in the terrain. It is very hard for me to tell from that far out, but I can't shake this feeling that there could be something there, whether it be natural or manmade. I'm not as skilled as most of you are on these forums when it comes to locating probable caves, but if there are any signs of them based on topos or anything else, it'd be interesting to say the least.

That's all I've got!

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:24 am

That is a very lovely spot. In 2003, it looks flat. The crops go all the way up and down that field. In 2006 it looks like a crack is slowly fracturing across the field. By 2010, the farmer has to change how he traverses that field significantly, and these days it looks like a nice little dent has taken hold. That's definitely a sink hole. And where there is a sink hole, there is a void caving in somewhere underground. If there is an opening and where that might be is a whole other set of questions.

Baileybrucem · Post by **Baileybrucem** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:28 am

Lol redrook I consider you a friend on this forum. If that's a sink hole, I might have to look into that a little more in the future. Maybe a casual stroll up towards it from the street..
Is it possible that the stream just East of the sinkhole could go underground somewhere?

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:28 am

USGS has zero caves listed in that quadrangle, but that sinkhole is also not known about on GeoStrat. At the very least, you found a sinkhole that isn't well known.

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:31 am

Stream northeast of there is spring fed. So there is underground water movement. It doesn't show any of the streams are losing water underground.

Baileybrucem · Post by **Baileybrucem** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:32 am

Do you think that there could be some meat behind that story my friend told me? You'd think the USGS wouldn't miss something like that, especially something so close to an active quarry.

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:39 am

Stream south of there is spring fed as well, and that is very interesting set of ponds. There are a ton of them sitting in that low ridge's draws (where the ridge has dips when water flows downhill). The crazy thing is that those ponds are above the creek in elevation. So they've sunk in enough to retain water uphill, and they are lined with something solid enough to keep the water there. That's a very odd combination, and it's happened multiple times.

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:42 am

USGS misses all kinds of things. I know the guy who mapped a lot of the caves south of Springfield. He says they are finding caves again all the time that have been forgotten about. Chances are it is not a very massive cave if there is one or someone would likely have noted it, but its an interesting little area. There's definitely some unique things going on with rock and water there.

BagHead727 · Post by **BagHead727** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:41 pm

Baileybrucem wrote: I also find it odd that there aren't any large, moving water sources nearby.

38.701561, -94.553604 .

I'm not sure what you mean. There is a creek flowing right through that patch of trees next to the sink hole... The creek is half a mile long

If you look at a road map and not a terrain map, it shows that creek popping into existence about 1200ft north of that "sinkhole." Definitely seems promising.

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:56 pm

I was looking over those strange uphill triangle ponds south of there as well, and I spotted some odd concrete:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6722827 ... m1!1e3

I wonder what that used to be. It seems too long to be a foundation, but aerial photos from just a few years ago shows what looks to be a roof or maybe just boards lying directly over the concrete. It is hard to tell it's height., and there is still some kind of structure sticking out of it on the east side. I'd be curious as to what the hell that is all about. Is there a need for barns that abnormally long?

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:14 pm

There's a pretty good oxbow lake east of there too:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6728393 ... m1!1e3

Oxbow lakes are where the river changed course, so it doesn't flow there anymore, but the prior erosion leaves a horse shoe type shape for a lake to form. This isn't a very boring place when it comes to water eroding things.

Baileybrucem · Post by **Baileybrucem** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:30 pm

I'm going to go down there in a few days and see what I can find. I'll mainly be focusing on the creeks just to the East and Southwest of the potential sinkhole, but first of course I'm gonna see if that is indeed a sinkhole in the field. I'm now very intrigued, because I've had my mind set on this location for a few months now. I'll take some pictures of the sinkhole itself, and if by the grace of god I find an opening to a cave, regardless of how grandiose it is, you all can expect pictures of the opening. Wish me luck!

RedRook · Post by **RedRook** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:48 pm

Good Luck.

PANIC! on the Titanic · Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:50 am

The geology in this thread arouses me.

Nicotti · Post by **Nicotti** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:23 am

RedRook wrote:I was looking over those strange uphill triangle ponds south of there as well, and I spotted some odd concrete:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6722827 ... a=!3m1!1e3

I wonder what that used to be. It seems too long to be a foundation, but aerial photos from just a few years ago shows what looks to be a roof or maybe just boards lying directly over the concrete. It is hard to tell it's height., and there is still some kind of structure sticking out of it on the east side. I'd be curious as to what the hell that is all about. Is there a need for barns that abnormally long?

Bing shows the north side wall still standing. Maybe it was some type of livestock pen barn?

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